Q&A with Dan: ON1 Photo RAW & Lightroom®
- September 2, 2016
- 32,829 Views
Posted by Dan Harlacher
I’m amazed after all these years there is so much diversity in workflows. All the variable ways people download, organize and edit means if you talk to another photographer about their workflow, chances are it is different than yours. It’s not just in the software or equipment we use. Some of us organize by date, others by client or subject. Some shoot RAW, some JPG, some both. Some of us rename, others don’t.
Some of us use Photoshop® as our main tool, some Lightroom, some others. Some of us store our photos in the cloud, etc. Our workflows develop and change organically as we learn, or our tools change. If there is one thing I have learned over the years, it’s you can’t tell someone how their workflow should be.
At ON1, our goal has always been to fit into and improve your workflow, without dictating how you do it. That’s why we work as plug-ins to Adobe® Photoshop and Lightroom as well as Apple® Photos. That’s also why we work as a standalone application for those who don’t use these tools. It’s also why we can send photos from Browse to any other application. Finally, it’s also why we support several cloud storage services. We add value to your workflow where you want it.
This goal doesn’t change with Photo RAW. It will still work as a plug-in to Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom just like it does today. You will gain all of the performance and quality improvements, plus take advantage of the new features and tools. It will be faster and more flexible than ever before.
One of the big changes in ON1 Photo RAW is it can be used as a non-destructive editor too. That means the original photo on disk doesn’t change when you make edits to it in the application. This makes editing faster, takes up less hard drive space and makes it easier to re-edit or apply the same settings to many photos. When you use ON1 Photo RAW as a standalone application, any photos you edit in Browse, Develop or Effects, will be stored non-destructively.
This raises a questions on how you can integrate ON1 Photo RAW into your workflow. Let’s try to answer them.
Q: I’m a Lightroom user, how will I use ON1 Photo RAW?
A: Lightroom is a wonderful application and is the heart of many workflows. ON1 Photo RAW will be the perfect companion to Lightroom. By using it as a plug-in you can extend your Lightroom workflow with a range of new tools and effects Lightroom doesn’t offer. You will continue to use Lightroom for your organizing, raw processing and basic adjustments. When you want to do special effects, portrait retouching, compositing or advanced masking you will send you photos from Lightroom to Photo RAW seamlessly with the included plug-ins. When you finish your work, it will return to Lightroom and show your finished results. Using ON1’s unique Smart Photo technology you can re-edit your results down the road if you want.
Q: I’d like to use ON1 Photo RAW for sorting and culling upfront, but keep using Lightroom, how does that work?
A: At it’s core, Photo RAW is a super-fast browser. You can simply point it at a folder of photos and view them instantly. There is no need to import or catalog them before you can get to work. Some high-volume photographers use the Browse module to sort, cull and rename their photos before they import them into Lightroom. Any metadata you add in Browse, from star ratings to keywords to IPTC core fields are stored in Adobe xmp sidecar files. When you catalog your photos with Lightroom it reads these sidecar files and adds your metadata to Lightroom automatically. In fact, now with ON1 Photo RAW metadata may be exchanged and kept up-to-date between Lightroom, Photoshop and ON1 Photo RAW automatically.
Q: I’m primarily a Photoshop user, what changes for me?
A: In short, nothing… but everything. 🙂 You will continue to use Photo RAW as a plug-in to Photoshop. If you use Smart Objects, ON1 Photo RAW will be used as a re-editable Smart Filter. Everything you can do today in ON1 Photo 10 will continue to work. What will be different is the performance. ON1 Photo RAW is light-speed faster compared to the past. You will get to bounce seamlessly from Develop and Effects and create presets that use both. You will get to take advantage of new tools and improved filter results.
Q: I want to use ON1 Photo RAW as my main workflow tool, how do I get started?
A: If you keep your photos organized in folders like most people, you can simply add your highest level folder, like My Pictures, as an Indexed Folder. You will be able to browse your folders and photos right away. In the background, Photo RAW will scan all of them so you can search and view them faster. That’s really all there is to it.
Q: I want to switch from Lightroom to ON1 Photo RAW, how do I get started?
A: That depends on how you use Lightroom. Some Lightroom users just use it for organizing their photos. In that case you will want to use Lightroom’s “Save Metadata to File” command which will embed any metadata (like keywords) you have added to your photos. Then add your highest level folder of photos, like your My Pictures folder, as an Indexed Folder in ON1 Photo RAW. If you really put Lightroom to work and use features like Albums, presets or have edited many of your photos with the Develop module, you may want to wait until early 2017 to make a full migration when we will provide our migration tool. This migration tool will make it a seamless process to import your presets, albums and photo settings. There is nothing preventing you from experimenting with ON1 Photo RAW in the meantime. Remember, both Photo RAW and Lightroom are non-destructive so you can have completely different edits for the same photo in each application without interfering or changing the photo file on disk.
Q: I use a handful of apps, can I use ON1 Photo RAW as the center of my workflow?
A: You bet. Using ON1 Photo RAW’s Browse module you can organize, view, cull and add metadata to your photos. You can do your normal RAW processing and effects in the Develop and Effects modules. When you need to use a special application, you can then configure any application as an external editor. This could be Photoshop, Google/NIK plug-ins, and others. Just keep in mind that photos sent to external applications are rendered copies.
Q: What about DNG files?
A: ON1 Photo RAW can read and write metadata from DNG raw photos as well as process them like any other raw photo. We use the official Adobe DNG library for reading and writing metadata. Any processing settings saved in Lightroom or other applications are not used, but are safe and not modified. We use our own proprietary raw engine for decoding and processing them.
Q: Can I see my non-destructive edits from Lightroom in ON1 Photo RAW or vice versa?
A: Not really. Each non-destructive editor is a walled garden, you can only view your edits to a photo while you are in the application that made them. In order to see those edits in other applications you must export or save a copy of the photo with the edits applied, which is not re-editable.
So, is there anything I missed? Let me know in the comments.
121 Comments
Fred BeiderbeckeSeptember 2, 2016
I currently use DxO Optics Pro to convert and correct the files up front and then import to lightroom. Does On1 Raw have the same functionality as DxO? Will it have camera and lens corrections built in?
Tom BillingsSeptember 4, 2016
I do as well. I would love to know the answer.
kentSeptember 4, 2016
I would love to see the answer of this one as well.
How about camera profile’s ? (Portrait, Vivid, etc..)
Bill BatemanSeptember 9, 2016
I would also like to see the answer
Bill.
karel@wittenhannah.comSeptember 17, 2016
How soon can we expect support for the Canon 5D mark IV. Both its standard RAW and Dual Pixel RAW files??
Dan HarlacherSeptember 19, 2016
Hi Fred,
Initially ON1 Photo RAW will not have camera and lens profiles. Those are features we will be working on over the next year.
Petr KrenzelokSeptember 2, 2016
I have a question towards re-editability. I mean – using on1 Photo RAW in a standalone mode, I expect original file being untouched, and all edits residing in a sidecar files. But – when you start Photo RAW from LR, will it create a Photo RAW sidecar file, or create a PSD with SmartLayer turned on? In other words – what is the position of Layers module? Feels a bit like a stranger to the rest of the Photo RAW? 🙂 Simply put – what happens, if I decide to use Layers? I expect PSD being created, but – what happens to the previous edits in sidecar files? Or do Smart Layers use those sidecar files? Big thanks 🙂
Dan HarlacherSeptember 19, 2016
Hi Petr,
When you use ON1 Photo as a plug-in to Lightroom it works as it does today, Lightroom creates a copy of the photo with your Lightroom settings baked in, this is the photo that ON1 Photo RAW works on and it bakes it’s settings into it as well, so not-non-destructive when used as a plug-in with Lightroom or Photoshop.
When used as a standalone, it is non-destructive. The original photo is unmodified and the settings are stored separately when using Browse, Develop and Effects. When you go to Layers or Resize, it must render a copy with your settings applied, much the way Lightroom does.
You can still use Smart Photos, where each layer in a layered PSD file has non-destructive settings applied to them.
MarkOctober 27, 2016
So; the only way to avoid LR and On1 Photo Raw creating 500MB psd files is to do everything in On1 Photo RAW?! Time to ditch LR, I think.
William MossSeptember 2, 2016
Sorry, I’m still confused. As an unsophisticated DNG user, dislikes sidecar files, please help me out. You state ‘Any processing settings saved in Lightroom or other applications are not used, but are safe and not modified. We use our own proprietary raw engine for decoding and processing them.’. Does this mean settings I make in LR are completely disregarded by On1 and On1 starts from scratch or does it mean On1 applies its own interpretation of the settings made in LR? Either way doesn’t this imply that DNG LR users may now have double work if they continue to use the ACR approach in LR Develop? By double work I mean they may have to readjust the image again, in On1, if they don’t like how On1 changed it.
When all adjustments are completed in On1 and the file is returned to LR, post saving, what format does that file have, PSD? Does the returned image have a sidecar or, as happens now, in our DNG workflow, is everything embedded in the returned file? Even Petr has questions about sidecars and he loves them.
There are already numerous instances when the returned PSD displays differently in LR. Matt is always stating ‘it’s OK to make adjustments in LR post On1 if you don’t like the way the image looks’. Are you now creating yet another ‘oh, just adjust it again’?
Thank you for the reply.
Dan HarlacherSeptember 19, 2016
Hi William,
Let me see if I can clarify it. You can use ON1 Photo RAW in two principle ways in your workflow. It really comes down to what you want to use as your RAW processor. If you are going to use Lightroom to manage and process your photos, you will use ON1 Photo RAW as a plug-in. As a plug-in it is NOT non-destructive just like all other plug-ins. Lightroom provides a processed (non-RAW) version of the photo, in the file format of your choice, to us and we apply your edits the “old fashioned way” to that file so that they appear back in Lightroom. Both the settings applied to the RAW photo in Lightroom before sending to a plug-in and the results from the plug-in are rendered and not re-editable.
The second way is to use ON1 Photo RAW as your RAW processor for managing and processing. In this case it works as a replacement to Lightroom. When used this way it is non-destructive and re-editable.
Every RAW processor is an island and they do not interoperate non-destructively. Each app has their own instructions, algorithms and processing pipelines. Settings made in one app are ignored by the other.
However in the future we will provide a free Lightroom migration tool. This will aid in transitioning by importing and converting Albums and metadata. It will also convert presets and individual photo settings. Keep in mind this conversion process will create similar, but not exact results to Lightroom for similar features. This migration tool is not intended as a bridge for daily interoperation with Lightroom, but for one-time transitions of catalogs to ON1 Photo RAW.
MarkOctober 27, 2016
Dan, thank you, that is most helpful.
Will the migration tool be able to ‘read’ .psd files (created by On1 Photo10) and then find the raw that is associated to it, apply the settings as a sidecar to that raw file? This would be wonderful!
Paul MeachenSeptember 2, 2016
As I understand it, DNG is an open format so it should be possible for On1 Raw to see changes made in LR/ACR if they’re written to the file. If you’re saying that this isn’t going to happen then I’m afraid that’s a killer for me – if I have to go to LR and export any of my current DNG’s to On1 and work on a copy then I’m afraid I’ll be limiting my use to simply stylising my images. That’s disappointing as I, along with many others, was hoping I’d be able to ditch Adobe altogether.
William MossSeptember 3, 2016
Mr. Meachen, It appears our workflows are similar – NEF to DNG, LR Develop to On1 then back to LR or possibly to PS if On1 results are not positive (removing fence posts etc.). Most of the time On1 gives a good representation of the LR ACR adjustments but not always. Going back to LR, post stylization, is where I have far more issues especially with out of gamut colors that require more adjustment.
I have no heart for yet another another conversion, (from NX2/PS/NIK to LR). If I did convert, no more LR catalog, what if any is the impact to our already finalized images when they are brought into the new On1?
Even though we have already paid for it, I believe I may ‘test’ the new version but continue my current workflow until sometime in the future when the next version is more ‘mature’.
Robert EdwardsSeptember 4, 2016
Firstly, thank you for choosing to support DNG! Like William and Paul I’d like some more info on how ON1 RAW will handle DNG please. The Adobe spec allows for vendors to store their settings as metadata *alongside* and independent of Adobe’s, inside the file.
Just as important to me is storing a JPEG preview of the ON1 RAW adjustments. Again the spec allows for *multiple* previews from *multiple* raw converters. In theory I could use Phase One Media Pro as the catalog app and see my ON1 RAW adjustments – as long as it contains JPEG previews readable by Apple Preview.
Ideally ON1 RAW would have a DNG validation tool – that’s the main reason I use DNG.
Hank HuyserSeptember 12, 2016
I, too, would like to “ditch” Adobe, especially as I have an “older” laptop (about 6 years by now), and I am tired of not having all the “features” o Adobe CC as I do not have the latest and greatest graphics adapter. I cannot change the adapter in my laptop, and I was told that, in a laptop, the graphics adapter is ALWAYS integrated, whether it is a top name like NVIDIA or something of the “Intel HD Graphics” that is always found in the lower-end box retail store variety of laptops.
I am hoping that ON1 RAW will be the substitute to be able to catalog, develop, edit, stylize, re-develop, re-catalog changed versions, etc. And, when there are added “features” that a graphics adapter’s capabilities are needed, that the demands are not SO high on the adapter that we have no choice but to buy a new laptop. Personally, I do not have the money for, nor do I find it necessary to have to change out a laptop every 2-3 years just because a software solution (i.e.: Adobe) will NOT support–and gives notice as such–certain older graphics adapters when adding capabilities. When there is a blanket “No, we won’t play with what you have anymore. We will only play if you have new.,” then I don’t want to support them anymore. I get that technology marches on. But, an admission from a CC support rep that says, practically speaking, that the life cycle of a graphics adapter vis a vis support by CC is somewhere around 2-3 years, then purchasing laptops with the power that’s needed in the first place is nearly impossible to keep up with. So, that’s where *I* stand. I will NEVER abandon ON1…NEVER. But, I AM hoping that, with the “bigness” of ON1 RAW’s announcements and promotion, the development and maturing of the ON1 RAW platform/workflow will one day help me to tell Adobe they’re not the only player anymore, and to take them down from their lofty perch.
Hank HuyserSeptember 12, 2016
A PS:
And then, as I continue to promote ON1 to my fellow photographers–especially those who “hem and haw” about going to CC…possibly…and, then maybe not, and then, maybe yes, I can tell THOSE people they don’t have to “enslave” themselves to Adobe ‘cuz they aren’t the only de facto solution, as they may once have been.
Timothy KroskieSeptember 13, 2016
I’m seeing a lot of these same questions with editing LR files with on1 raw and why on1 can’t see the edits. The answer really lies in the fact that LR is a database and that your edits really reside in the lrcat catalog file and not the individual raw files. I’m guessing the file structure of the lrcat file may not readily available to third parties. This is all speculation on my part because I’m not a software developer, to test this try moving your files outside of LR you’ll quickly find that without the information in the lrcat file your raw files are unedited. Just my .02 cents
Paul MeachenSeptember 13, 2016
it’s DNG files we’re asking about, and you can opt to store your changes within the file itself rather than in LR’s database. You can also opt to store edits to raw files in XMP sidecar files, so your edits are not necessarily dependent on the LR catalogue.
Dan HarlacherSeptember 19, 2016
We will read metadata such as keywords and descriptions as well as camera information from DNG files. Initially processing settings from ACR/Lightroom will be ignored however. In 2017 we will provide a convertor that will enable the one-time reading of processing settings from these apps to translate them to ON1 Photo RAW settings. We will update DNG files with metadata changes but we will not store our processing settings in DNG however.
WILLIAM CHINNSeptember 2, 2016
How does the user maintain compatibility with the On1 10.5 plugins? Does On1 Raw remove 10.5 and its recordings? What about work in progress?
Does Raw apply itself to multiple versions of PS or LR?
Are there tools in 10.5 that go away with Raw? If so, can a work around be made to keep the tool’s presence?
Don MacleanSeptember 2, 2016
Quote: “If you really put Lightroom to work and use features like Albums, presets or have edited many of your photos with the Develop module, you may want to wait until early 2017 to make a full migration when we will provide our migration tool. This migration tool will make it a seamless process to import your presets, albums and photo settings.”
I have seen many RAW processors make these claims where you can import photo settings but, in fact, never succeed because the way adjustments are done in one image editor usually have no direct correlation to those in another.
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Hey Don, Good to see you. We will try our best and I can tell you now it looks promising!
Josh WardellSeptember 2, 2016
My fingers are crossed that photo raw will save edits to small sidecar files and no longer need to create giant PSD files when working with Lightroom. In Photo 10, a 25MB camera raw file is exported from Lightroom to ON1 as a 75 MB PSD file as expected. But once ON1 saves its work to that file, it grows to a whopping 500MB! I’m hoping with sidecars it will stay at 75MB and save significant space (not to mention making my cloud backup cry a little less).
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
If you are using Photo RAW as a Lr Plug-in, it will still create a PSD file. That we cannot change. We will have PSD file compression if you work this way, which we haven’t had before. So that will help with the large file sizes.
DON SCHNEIDERSeptember 3, 2016
Dan, where are the answers to the questions?
Thanks, Don
DON SCHNEIDERSeptember 3, 2016
Dan, I meant the answers to the questions made in the comments.
Don
Stephen WilksSeptember 3, 2016
I’ve been a huge fan of On1 for years. My workflow is LR import (and cataloging) and adjustments before moving into On1 and returning to LR catalog. Rarely use of PS. The more questions, comments and answers I read, it appears that the advantage of “non-destructible” editing is leaving the house. I’m concerned that the new RAW editor with On1 may attempt to alter the workflow of a significant percentage of current “huge fans” and get a grade of “C” in the “plays well with others” column on the report card. I’ll continue subscribing because I love the presets and filters, but likely will still be returning a PSD file to LR as I do now…. Hope the feedback that I’ve read can be reflected in future developments after the beta work. Thanks.
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
If this is how you still want to work, that wont change with Photo RAW. The difference will definitely be in the speed in which you do things in the ON1 apps and the new features and tools will still benefit you.
jean jannonSeptember 3, 2016
> can read and write metadata from DNG raw photos as well as process them like any other raw photo. We use the official Adobe DNG library
… will this cover the (newer) lossy DNG formats introduced by Adobe in v. 1.4 (which I use often instead of native camera RAWs or camera JPGs), or just the standard DNGs?
johan.van.mensel@telenet.beSeptember 4, 2016
I like ON1 and ON1 RAW as a standalone program !
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
I think a lot of people will too. Getting excited!
Brian TuckerSeptember 4, 2016
I am assuming that ON1 RAW will, in addition to being able to deal directly with raw files in a non-destructive way, continue to support PSDs and all our work from previous versions of the ON1 suite. Is this correct?
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
This is correct
David ReilanderSeptember 4, 2016
Will RAW work with Aperture 3, as ON1 does now?
Tom KauffmanSeptember 4, 2016
In what ways will ON1 RAW not be a replacement for Lightroom for developing photos. I understand that cataloging does not come with RAW, Basically, what I am asking is what will you give up besides cataloging if you use ON1 and give up Lightroom. I’m beginning to think not much, but would like to hear from you Dan.
Richard HornerSeptember 4, 2016
This is not a Q&A if the only questions and answers are from the blogger.
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Working on it! 🙂
Ed AdamsSeptember 4, 2016
By the nature of this blog it looks like you will be replacing On1 10 with Raw? I thought it was just a new app? So if I want to move to the new On1 (11) it is raw?
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
It is a NEW app, but will carry forward a lot of the features from Photo 10. The beauty of it is, if you bought Photo 10 (or Perfect Photo Suite 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) you can still get the upgrade. Photo RAW has mostly modern code and will be quite a different experience for the better. Trust me. 🙂 Look for some updated videos in the coming weeks and it will explain.
Mark PitcavageOctober 17, 2016
re yr comment about looking for upcoming videos. Look, it takes me 10 minutes to watch a 10 minute video. But if you WRITE stuff, I can read it in about 15% of the time. Videos just mean lost time to me. That’s why I clicked on the link to this q&a but do not click on all the e-mails on1 sends to me announcing some video with info. So please, just write stuff.
johnhoskisonSeptember 4, 2016
Given Lightroom does none destructive RAW WHY would I need this. It sounds like some tech head has said “oooh we can do this” and no one has thought to ask them “why should we?”.. Interesting to see Dan’s not answering any questions.. Its obvious from the responses you are seeing something we are all missing…Give us a simple “COST V BENEFIT ANALYSIS” in bullet points not “Geek Speak” please.
Paul MeachenSeptember 4, 2016
Lightroom doesn’t have layers for a start.
Petr KrenzelokSeptember 4, 2016
Difficult to answer a question, which is wrong from the very beginning. In fact – what are you asking about? If you like LR, you can stay with LR. From the workflow perspective, imo nothing changes for you, apart from you getting some more polished tools. It will imo still use jpg, tiff or PSD to get you into on1 (unless I am mistaken) and hence no non-destructive aproach, maybe some re-editability (Smart Layers), or combination of both. But I don’t expect the ability of on1 to pick-up on where you left in LR, and vice versa.
on1 Photo RAW is imo an answer to those, who don’t want to use LR anymore. What kind of “proof” do you want here? I am one of those, who started with and lovel LR. But honestly – apart from Library/Develop and maybe Print, the rest is useless functionality nowadays. I very much welcome stand-alone functionality and all new features. Mainly non-destructive functionality, retouch toold being available everwhere, reduced PSD size (compression) and all other refinements, which deserve to be called – on1 Photo RAW (11).
David PriceSeptember 6, 2016
Petr & Paul are right, I for one will be only too happy to have a single package in which to develop and polish my raw files.
Cost benefit analysis, –
buy three pieces of software and waste time moving files from one to the other
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Our customers have been asking for a RAW Processor and so it was the next logical step for us. If you like Lightroom, stick with it and you can use Photo RAW as a plug-in to Lightroom. We wont dictate when and where you can use Photo RAW. We want to fit into your workflow whether you like what you are currently using OR if you are looking for a change.
John RileySeptember 4, 2016
Olympus micro-4/3 lens profile corrections are already inside the RAW files, so we don’t have to worry about loading profiles and doing corrections in Lightroom. Will ON1 RAW read and make those corrections seamlessly and transparently like Lightroom does?
Paul MeachenSeptember 4, 2016
@ DON SCHNEIDER and johnhoskison This article was posted on Friday, and it’s still now only Sunday (the weekend you know). For pity’s sake, do you expect a 24/7 personal service or something?
Hank HuyserSeptember 12, 2016
Amen, Paul.. Give ’em all a chance, people! For those who are writing from outside the USA, please note that 5 September was a National Holiday named Labor Day. just about everything that isn’t “retail store” is closed that day.
Let’s also remember that comments and questions are only “clicks away” now. the human mind and body cannot act as fast as a Core i9 Intel processor chipset. Even if they can’t “answer,” maybe they’re first researching if it can be done–again, a HUMAN speed, not a chipset’s.
It’s not “fall” yet. It begins on September 20-21. 😉
Chris WyattSeptember 4, 2016
For those of us using LR as well as On1 my question is what features will LR have that On1 Photo Raw will not have on the first version? I’m not sure the faster speed will help if I need to go to LR to finish my initial pp and then go back to On1 Effects, etc. Listing what features are missing now will help decide where to start pp. Matt K stated earlier that not all the LR features will be there, but did not give specifics. I do not use every LR feature for every photo so On1 Photo Raw might work for most. Please list the differences.
Erik MalvickSeptember 5, 2016
I am looking forward to the software because I want to dump Adobe from my workflow, which has been anchored in LR for the past 5 or 6 years (for developing, I catalog with another software).
For those that are concerned about your LR edits, I wouldn’t expect a different RAW developer to read what you already have. No RAW software has played nice with others. If you want to switch, I think you have to do so knowing that you may have to re-process files. If that’s not worth it, then you keep LR handy. The nice thing is all the LR edits will be in metadata even if On1 can’t read them. On1 will likely use its own metadata space for its edits.
Personally, I’m fine with this. On the rare photo I put so much effort into that I wouldn’t want to start over, I usually export a Tiff or PSD. LR has lost my edits in the past (as have other software). The safest place to save your edits is in an exported image.
Anyway, I am just hoping that On1 does enough to allow me to ditch LR completely. I don’t like subscription products, and LR 6 has been useless. All the info suggests this might work well.
Adam RubinsteinSeptember 11, 2016
Likewise, I’ve experienced similar issues with LR and apart from cataloging and basic adjustments, the rest of my work is currently in On1. Out of curiosity, what cataloging program/method are you using?
Jeff LambertSeptember 6, 2016
@Petr Krenzelok
I think you could use a totally non-destructive workflow if you export as Smart Layer in LR to PS, than use ON1 photo raw as a smart filter. That way you keep both as non destructive edits. Granted, you’ll have to save as PSD and keep that beside the original in LR, but you’ll still be able to edit it. Another way would be to place a DNG file as linked smart object in PS, that way, if you make an edit in LR and resave the edits to the DNG file, it will be updated in the PSD file as well, in which you can use ON1 as a smart filter. I mean, the possibilities are there, BUT, you will have to go through Photoshop for them to work. I’m not ready to go to all that for all my photos, but if I want the full edibility for a special project it will be doable.
MattSeptember 6, 2016
Hi – I am ultimately looking to move out of the LR/PS subscription model and currently use On1 Photo 10.5 rarely but Photo RAW is peaking my interest. One question I have is: will you be able to implement Luminosity Masking, Blending and other advanced techniques now used in PS in the new Photo RAW or will you still need to use PS for these techniques?
David PriceSeptember 6, 2016
Hi Matt
I am replying as a user of On1 10.5, I think that you need to take a closer look at your copy of On1. As it already has both ‘luminosity masking’ and ‘blending’, and I would be very surprised if On1 Raw did not also have these features.
Best wishes, David Price
Hank HuyserSeptember 12, 2016
Matt, I believe there’s already luminosity masking in ON1 10.5. You say you “rarely use it” right now. How about opening it and playing around with it. Yes, it’s there right now to “enhance”–what you may do in PS/LR, and maybe “resize”, that you wouldn’t leave the Adobe solution for. But, there’s a whole module on Effects (and “stylization” as, I think Brian Matiash was the first one I heard it called as. Now, stylization may not be your bailiwick, but I think if you explore particularly the stylization module, you will see the luminosity masking used in the controlling of the effects applied…
Try it! I think you’ll like it… 😉
All of that will remain with the new ON1 RAW, AFAIK…and have NO reason to believe otherwise.
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
These are in Photo 10.5 and will also be in RAW. Both of these features will also advance with development of the app.
Axel BueckerSeptember 6, 2016
My main reasons to entertain switching to a new RAW processing engine are speed, speed, and speed. I expect similar functional capabilities and high quality results from either On1 RAW and LR, so those are really not the reason; although the added benefits of using Layers and Effects on RAW files is very appealing, too 😉
I love the way I can organize my work in and around LR, but lately, I struggle heavily with performance due to heavy loads from client work. Not being able to “quickly” scroll through folders inside the development module drive me nuts. If On1 RAW can eventually allow a good workflow for me with greatly improved performance I am all ears.
On top, I have another very important requirement that has not been mentioned anywhere.
When all my development work is finished I manage the publication process to my Zenfolio Galleries purely through LR. When I have to apply slight changes to pictures I can easily “re-publish” just those changed files directly to Zenfolio from LR. I could not imagine doing any of these tasks manually and stay on top of things … I have to manage between 15 and 20 galleries per month with thousands of pictures. This is also applicable for many of colleagues using other publishing services, such as smugmug, or even simple Facebook albums.
OK … this was a long comment, but I hope it’s useful for On1 RAW development …
Rodney MitchellSeptember 6, 2016
I suggest everyone read here – https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/
and
https://www.on1.com/blog/on1-photo-raw-qa-with-dan-harlacher/
And be patient, a beta will be available to up to date ON1 Plus Pro users soon.
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Colin BoylandSeptember 6, 2016
On1/Patrick Smith,
We see “The questions have been coming in from users. 🙂 Thanks for stopping by.”
What those who are posting here would like to know is; if and when some answers will come? Can posted this article six days ago, welcoming responses, but nobody sees any responses back to questions.
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Hey Colin, I’ve poked Dan to dive in here and address questions. He and the entire dev team are working through the current sprint and have spent many many long hours the last 2 weeks. Not an excuse, but there are just so many hours in a day. 🙂 We all want Photo RAW to be the app everyone wants. I am sure he will be on the thread today and address most of these great questions. Thanks again for commenting
Paul MeachenSeptember 7, 2016
Dan posted this article on 2 September, your comment was made on 6 September and you make that six days? It’s four days – including a three day holiday weekend in the states – they’re entitled to time off you know.
Colin BoylandSeptember 7, 2016
I’m sorry for the slight miscalculation (1 day when I posted). I saw the article was posted by Dan on September 2. I live in Australia, so when I posted, on MY calendar it was September 7, but when you see it in the USA, it would have been September 6 as the USA is about 13.5 to 16.5 hours behind. I apologise for not taking into account this time difference. I also apologise for not being aware of every public holiday in the USA, or the rest of the world for that matter.
So, another day has gone by without a response to posts that were welcomed by Dan, which now is 5 days (ok, not forgetting the long weekend). Obviously Dan is too busy at the moment, to come back to see what users of their software are saying, or at least reply.
Hank HuyserSeptember 12, 2016
Ha! Amen Again, Paul.
😉
marc labroSeptember 7, 2016
hallo,
in the past with my d300 i used a lot capture nx2 with color efex pro for nx2 and sylver efex pro 2.
all adjustments wre i the nef even variants. fantastic ! unfortunately nx2 was stopped and LR continued. until LR 5 i was disapointed by LR but local adjustment, radial filter, perspective,… are really fantastic tools so i like LR.
i love the look of lightroom but the grid view is really too slow because instead of making thumbnails it computes images with adjutments everytime we go up and down page by page.
i use library, develop and print only.
i am disapointed LR doesn’t have layers, opacity, blending modes and dynamic contrast and a good eraser for unwanted elements. this is why i am really excited by photo raw in non destructive mode with all these tools.
what i expect from photo raw is to import images from my CF card, have the same “auto” than develop module in LR which makes a fantastic job and we can retouch slider by slider.
two things i don’t like in LR :
– i often travel with my laptop and process images with the customer and never remember how to create a local catalog to import in the catalog on my big desktop pc with widescreen
– i have a 200 euros canon mp980 and 200 euros philips display and never understood why we need to work with prophoto. my d300 uses adobe 19998, lot of on1 tutos are using adobe, photoshop also. when i make compositing with srgb images from istock photo, LR, photoshop,… depending where i open and save files i have color offsets and sometimes tricky to fix that. i am aware srgb is too small color space and use it for exporting for the web but prophoto is a space which give me headashes with plugins,… i hope photo raw can select adobe 1998.
i would like to say that speed has increased in latest versions of ON1 software but it is still slow compared to LR, Nik plugins, photoshop, topaz plugins,… ON1 developers prefer using graphic card power but is it a good choice. it is the slowest soft i have used and i don’t have thousands of pictures to retouch like you. one day i have installed on1 on a lenovo laptop at the office and awful while photoshop… were running nice. i had however a nvidia graphic card with lot of memory and it runs fast with solid works, cadence,… softwares. very strange
i’d like to have a brush with a color and a eye dropper and opacity, very easy to paint houses in black below a fireworks, paint in local green a grey part of a background behind a butterfly surrounded by green grass…
i am waiting the day where Matt Kloskowski will say : “i don’t use LR anymore ubut photoraw”.
marc
Petr KrenzelokSeptember 8, 2016
If you are not much fluent with (dis)advantages of certain color spaces, I would suggest to stick to sRGB. You save yourself tonnes of complications and sRGB can still represent nice images. My eyes roll over, when I hear ppl were suggested to use aRGB during some courses, not knowing why in the first place.
As for on1 SW – it was really slow for us in the past. The change happened with Windows 8.1, it was radical for us, MS had to redo some gfx part of the system, I can’t eplain it. Photo 10.5.1 runs nicely even on Dell ntb using Intel gfx card.
As for “paint by color”, if you look closely into some screenshots, it is already there, so yes, such functionality is coming – let’s see how it works in real life.
As for Matt Kloskowski fully switching to Photo RAW. It absolutly will not happen. First – Matt loves LR (and PS) and moved on to his own business. Look at his website – almost pure LR/PS material. We will see if in future, Matt ever posts on1 related stuff on his website. My take is, there might be some material, but done for on1 guys. We will see, I would like to be positively surprised here 🙂 …
Don MacleanSeptember 12, 2016
Quote: “i am aware srgb is too small color space and use it for exporting for the web but prophoto is a space which give me headashes with plugins,… i hope photo raw can select adobe 1998.”
Color space doesn’t matter for RAW files, it is irrelevant, and ON1 Photo 10 works in what ever color space you choose as does any other image editor. Obviously they must be converted to sRGB to display on your monitor, but most traditional computer monitors can only display about 97% of the sRGB color space, and only about 76% of the AdobeRGB color space.
marc labroSeptember 9, 2016
thanks
there is also another advantage having a brush in layers…. when you want to remove a texture scratch from a face,… and use brush out it also removes the tone of the texture.
it is very well explained in photomorphis art of texture blendkit with the cowboy face (uses gaussian blur in photoshop or on1 which is nice too) and also in :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXHikr2Y4A
for a long time now i also ask to add the zone system checkboxes like sylver efex pro2.
on1 had a similar tool but grey zones were hard to differentiate. the yellow hatch of Nik is really amazing tool. i can easily modify a zone of sky taken with a polarizer until it fits another part of the sky, it is easy to check a face is in zone 7… this is really lacking in black and white filter of perfect effect
marc
Paul LachapelleSeptember 12, 2016
Do you entend to fully support Fuji Xtrans system with On1 photo Raw? Lightroom Cc has not yet completly been able to give good rendering of photos taken with Fuji Xt1, Xpro etc…
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
We sure hope so!
David IslerOctober 17, 2016
So do l
Jan NicholsSeptember 12, 2016
Dislike sidecars, if I liked the original image that much I would not be adjusting it and I can always save the un-edited RAW file. Please give me an option to NOT have sidecars.
Dean MalencikSeptember 12, 2016
Marc,
Interested in detailed instruction on how you use the Nik yellow hatch tool to modify polarized skies.
Robert KaneeSeptember 12, 2016
Currently still an Aperture user wanting to migrate selected projects and or library to Lightroom and and waiting for new ON1 Raw as I want to have a new workflow with Raw and Lightroom. I want know if Raw can help with the migration from Aperture to Lightroom and Raw?
David EnfieldSeptember 12, 2016
I primarily use Capture One Pro, from before ON1 Photo 10 was released. I haven’t found a workflow to consistently incorporate Photo 10 and don’t use it consistently. However, I have nevertheless gained a lot from the coaching posts over the past year.
From what I can tell so far, Photo RAW seems to overlap considerably with Capture One Pro. I’m very interested in help comparing/contrasting these two.
Robin ProcterOctober 18, 2016
I use Capture One as my front-end for processing my RAW files – Independent reports are that Capture One’s RAW conversion engine is superior to Lightroom/Photoshop/Aperture and so I don’t see that ON1’s new version ‘RAW’ will be superior to Capture One at this stage. < Any comments, ON1?
I export my RAW file as a TIFF into Photoshop where I sometimes use ON1 as a plug-in Filter to finish off my post-processing. It's then Saved back and exported from Capture One for publication.
I use other third-party Filters while in Photoshop (piccure+ and imageonic) which I find superior to what ON1 10.5 has to offer for sharpening and noise reduction.
Unless ON1 can claim that their RAW conversion engine is the best available (better than Phase One's Capture One) I shall only continue to use ON1 software (inappropriately called 'RAW') as a useful plug-in Filter within Photoshop. I have tried using ON1 as a standalone and don't enjoy it.
tinplater@aol.comSeptember 12, 2016
Dan,
I have to convert my Sony A7R2 RAW images to DNG then import to Lightroom 5. Will your product allow me directly import these RAW files?
Bert Van Der KriekenSeptember 12, 2016
Hi,
Will On1 Photo v10.5 & On1 RAW be compatible with the new Canon EOS 5D Mark IV?
Since LR isn’t for the moment this will be an advantage for On1 users!
Thank you,
Bert
Don MacleanSeptember 13, 2016
At this point in time nothing except DPP supports RAW files from the EOS 5D Mk IV, RAW Therapee has preliminary support. And my guess is ALL RAW processors will support it.
Douglas DrumondSeptember 13, 2016
Will it work with Fuji X-Trans RAW files? What about compressed RAW from X-Pro2?
Rodney MitchellSeptember 15, 2016
What are the supported cameras? https://www.on1.com/blog/on1-photo-raw-qa-with-dan-harlacher/
ON1 Photo RAW will support over 800 cameras. This includes just about everything built over the last 15 years. We will continually add support for new cameras released during development. We will also add support for new cameras when they become available, at no charge, as part of the auto-update mechanism. For a complete list of currently supported cameras go here. Don’t worry if you don’t see your new camera on the list. We will continue to update our list as we approach the release.
Will it support the Fuji X-trans sensors, various lens distortion corrections, as well as the automatic fixed lens corrections that some cameras encode. Will ON1 support Fuji® X-Trans files (and, importantly, demosaic them better than Lightroom®) and Sigma® Merrill X3F files?
ON1 Photo RAW will support Fuji X-trans sensors and will feature fast and high-quality results from them. It will also include baseline lens and noise corrections automatically. Additional manual noise and lens correction options will be available for manual adjustments. Sigma files will also be supported.
We will also support Super CCD sensors and aim to offer the same excellent results with them as we do for all other manufactures. We are currently building and will show results in the coming months.
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
We have our first pass list here, but there are some cameras we will be adding as we get closer to the release. We should have the final list soon. https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206277847
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Fuji support is at the top of our list and we hope to have it for launch, if not before the end of the year.
J. Paul MooreSeptember 13, 2016
For me, the most important part is how good the Raw processing is. It must be better (I know it’s a relative term) in terms of quality. To compete, it must do as good a job or better than Lightroom or Capture One.
Alex ReuschSeptember 13, 2016
You stated, that ON1 RAW is made for cameras with larger sensors. As there are actual 100MP cameras out there, have you thought about supporting even larger resolutions? I am doing very large panoramas, which can easily be 1-4 Gigapixel in size. How about supporting larger TIFF or PSB files (over 2GB in size)? Resolution support for images over 30’000 x 30’000.
Frank SousekSeptember 13, 2016
when is On1 coming to LINUX??
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
We don’t have any plans at the moment. Sorry!
s_grins@hotmail.comSeptember 13, 2016
My concern is batch processing. I’ve found existing batch processing via “export” non-sufficient. While assigning the same preset for multiple photos, I may want for each one different settings on slide-bars. Can I expect improvements in this area?
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Definitely. Working on a few or multiple photos will be as easy as selecting them and then copying and pasting settings (right in Browse). You could then adjust the settings on each photo. Check out this post: https://www.on1.com/blog/on1-photo-raw-a-new-way-to-work-with-presets/ and here’s a video https://www.on1.com/blog/non-destructive-photo-effects/ here for quick examples on how this will work.
Larry BeamSeptember 13, 2016
did I miss something? are there answers to all these great questions? There should be!!
Craig LarsenSeptember 14, 2016
Will On1 Raw at last return the un-constrain option to Resize so that controlled cropping can once again be done for artistic reasons early in image processing rather than simply mechanically cropping to fit the image to a paper size whatever the image loss late in the process, which is how Resize has been designed for the last several versions? Love Resize in very respect, except for it’s forced, constrained dimension demands and the resulting much hated (by me) crop box. Allow it to be un-constrained and resize to custom dimensions and resolutions input by the user, please. Know this will require image transformation and may involve some degree of distortion depending on the dimensions input. Don’t care; want the option again, please.
Oğuz ÇakırcıSeptember 15, 2016
Will I be able to edit my photos with ON1 Photo RAW like I do in Photoshop. E.g. removing people, blemishes, layers, brushes, repair brush, clone stamp etc?
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Yes, all of those tools will be available both in the non destructive and pixel editing workflows.
Wendy ArbeitSeptember 15, 2016
My camera, the Lumix DMC-ZS100 has been out for about a year but isn’t on your supported cameras list. Will it be added?
MarkSeptember 16, 2016
It is clear that Dan’ post about Q&A and Photo Raw – has led folk to assume that comments to this blog will be a personal Q&A session. I am surprised and disappointed that ON1 have cleared this up!
Patrick SmithSeptember 16, 2016
Hey Mark,
Really sorry about this! Dan should be on this thread today. He’s had a very busy two weeks working on RAW (many long hours).
marc labroSeptember 16, 2016
hallo,
isn’t it possible to add a section in this blog to suggest new features and vote ?
as first suggestions i suggest :
– adding zone system checkboxes with yellow hatch in bw effect
– adding a brush with color + opacity and eyedropper if we need to pick a color in the image
– painting in red the inner of a subject we want to select to be 100% sure the selection algorithm won’t eat the subject (any soft has blue on computing zone like hairs, buccket red on what you want to remove and bucket green on what you keep or mask mode in photoshop.
too often on1 selecting tools eat my subject
– pen tool which was there in old versions
best regards
marc
Paul MeachenSeptember 17, 2016
There’s a whole page (and has been for some time) specially for this:
https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/ideas/?utm_campaign=PhotoRAW_News_2016-06&utm_source=photoraw_news&utm_medium=email&utm_content=nav
Robert BarretoSeptember 17, 2016
Hi just piggybacking this thread to ask if an updated timeline for the beta or final release of Photo RAW is available since we are already mid Sept.
Oguz CakirciSeptember 18, 2016
I hope there will be a trial version of ON1 Photo RAW. I’m very interested about changing from Lightroom/Photoshop to a single Software which gives me all the main opportunities of both.
Philip ZwickSeptember 28, 2016
I read that NIK filters can be used with the ON1 products. How about Topaz filters?
Patrick SmithSeptember 29, 2016
If they can be set up as external editors (launched as a standalone), then YES. If not, then they wont plug-in to Photo RAW.
Don MacleanOctober 5, 2016
The same as even NIK Dfine and SharpenerPro filters cannot be used from ON1 Photo 10.5 so the Topaz filters cannot be used, even the standalone applications.
John BurnettSeptember 30, 2016
Quick question regarding Photo Raw’s overall program size compared to 10.5. I have my most important programs (including LR, PS and ON1 10.5) installed on my SSD for performance. My image files (and LR database) are stored on a regular “data” drive. Each upgrade to these programs seems to invariably chip away at the space I have available on the SSD, so I’m hoping that the upgrade will be slim, or there may be some strategies to help keep my SSD freed up.
Mark OsborneOctober 9, 2016
I am very anxious to leave LR 6 as quickly as possible, there are 2 issues that concern me, the first issue is dual monitor support like LR has, running 2 monitors is critical for my work and the second issue is print layout capability, in my mind photography is an art and printing is the final frontier (step) where you must be able to layout multiple sizes on a roll of paper, to be efficient with ink and paper rather than just able to print one photo only. I know there are other apps like C1 and Qimage that provide what I need, but would prefer it all in one app and I like On1 products very much, could you please comment on these 2 issues?
Robert EllOctober 17, 2016
Hi Matt, will Pentax Pixelshift raw and jpg files be supported in Photoraw. Currently LR supports pixelshift jpg files only.
Mark PitcavageOctober 17, 2016
This q&a does not address my main concerns. Can ON1 PhotoRaw 1) do tilt-shift corrections like Lightroom can, 2) do lens-specific corrections like Lightroom can, and 3) use camera-specific pre-sets like Lightroom can? If it can’t do these three things, I can’t replace Lightroom with it and it would still have to be a supplement to lightroom for me.
Patrick SmithOctober 18, 2016
Lens specific corrections with profiles will come later. There will be some basic lens correction in the initial release.
Bruce Baker-JohnsonOctober 18, 2016
Fundemental one I asked when this prog was first anounced. I keep the ‘C’ (a SSD) drive purely for the system. Progs are kept on an ‘E’ drive. I ditched On1 as it insists on installing to the ‘C’ drive (lots of hard earned cash down to pan). Is On1 – RAW any different?
Patrick SmithOctober 18, 2016
Not at the moment. Sorry about this
Jim GormleyOctober 18, 2016
Is it geared up for tethered shooting in s similar way to Capture One, if it is I’ll sign up today !
Patrick SmithOctober 18, 2016
It won’t be in the initial release, but something we are considering for the future. You can vote on this feature here.
GBMOctober 18, 2016
Fuji X-Trans is one thing….but if there is (or will be), Foveon X3F Raw File support, then that would be revolutionary! At the moment it’s only Sigma SPP, and it’s well..kind of slow and a bit clunky (understatement). Can someone comment on this??
Stuart UrquhartOctober 19, 2016
I would second that. Why is it always so much hassle to get Sigma X3F support ??
Alex ChanOctober 21, 2016
Hi, How many device i can use? Can i install into my imac and mbp?
Patrick SmithOctober 21, 2016
You will be able to install on up to 5 computers.
Jeremy WilliamsNovember 29, 2016
Hi. If I switch from LR to ON1 will I be able to use my LR presets in ON1? For instance, I’m enjoying the Mastin Lab presets and would like to keep using them.
Thanks.
Patrick SmithNovember 29, 2016
We will have a Lightroom preset convertor sometime in the next few month’s. At that time, it will bring all your Lightroom presets over to ON1 Photo RAW.
Jeremy WilliamsNovember 29, 2016
Wonderful. Thank you.
nbriechle@gmail.comApril 9, 2017
On One Photo Raw says it can send a photo to any other stand alone application. I cannot send a photo to any of the stand alone Topaz Lab plugins such as Texture Effects 2 or Photo Effects Lab which houses some of the other Topaz plugins. I can send my photos to any of the NIX plugins. Am I missing something? Is there a way to do this?
Patrick SmithApril 12, 2017
Yes, but the Topaz products won’t appear like the Nik plugins. You must choose File>Send to Other Application and then navigate to the Topaz standalone apps.
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